Movaia Running Podcast launched!

We are very excited to share our very first episode of the Movaia Running Podcast! 🎙️

If you’re passionate about running, don’t miss out on my conversation with the incredible coach, physiotherapist, and YouTube sensation, JP Gloria, who also advises Movaia. JP brings his wealth of knowledge from coaching both amateur and professional runners, offering tips that can also level up your running!

JP debunks common myths surrounding running techniques, and explore the complexities of cadence and foot strike. JP shares insights from his journey as a physiotherapist and coach, emphasizing the need for individualized approaches to running form to prevent injuries and enhance performance.

Find the transcript of our conversation below, or listen (and watch) on YouTube or Spotify!

More from JP Gloria: Youtube:  @JPGloria  Instagram: jpgloria.dpt

Thomas Butter (00:08)
Welcome to episode one of the Movaia Running Form podcast. my name is Thomas.

I’m the CEO and founder of Movaia.com where we use artificial intelligence to analyze short videos of runners so they can learn more about their running form. I’m very excited about today’s guest JP Gloria. He is a well-known YouTube personality but most importantly coach, physiotherapist and running form expert. And today will use his knowledge to debunk common myths about running form. So before we get into it,

JP, can you say a few more things about yourself and how did you get interested in running form

JP (00:45)
Hi, I’m JP. How did I get into it? I mean, there’s a long story to it, but we’ll keep it relatively short here. was always curious about movement. my first job actually was in animation. when I was 15 to 16 years old, I actually did character development for a certain game. So that would require, making human-like characters move. I mean, I was super excited about it, but I didn’t realize the level of detail or what you would have to learn to be able to make things walk and move. to make them walk, you had to understand different body parts, the joints, but even like the timing of movement.

So I basically went to YouTube to really understand the walking cycle and eventually the running cycle. It was countless hours of just watching things on replay. So that’s how I first got into movement. That’s how I learned a lot about it. That’s why take a look at a lot of the finer details of it because I’ve had to understand those details to make these characters move in a realistic way. eventually, that led me to going to physical therapy school. a physical therapist and run coach, I work with a lot of endurance athletes from the whole spectrum, from runners being injured to even working with some professional runners trying to compete at their best.

Thomas Butter (02:11)
Did you always know that you wanted to running or was that something that came later as you started working as a physiotherapist?

JP (02:21)
That came later actually. So for me, I was just excited about movement. Actually the first job I was primarily interested in neuro field. So with spinal cord injuries and all that kind of stuff. I was very passionate about that.

But I got into running because I was curious. Because I remember there was one class in physical therapy school where I remember we were going over running, and I was really excited about it. And it was only like one class about running, and that was it. And it was interesting because I think the opening line to talking about running in this kinesiology course was 80 % of runners get injured. But my thing with that is if 80 % of runners get injured, we really only spend one class on running? Because we really didn’t dive into it too much. And then the next class, we did something completely different. it came out of curiosity of asking questions. Because for me, I’m like,

Just because the class is over doesn’t mean that you know everything about runners. If anything, I was more curious to pursue that question. I think where I started was I started with analyzing a bunch of different runners, like from across the board, like some of the best runners in the world. I’d even trace these runners, too. That’s why my first videos on running actually had to do with what I did a lot of, that was just the first one I published, was going to each frame of the video. So imagine taking two to three to five second videos of a snapshot of someone’s running and then looking at essentially, 300 frames that I would manually trace out.

Thomas Butter (04:08)
I remember seeing your videos at that time, I was just blown away by the level of work that you would have had to take. Thankfully today, when we do this with AI, it’s a little bit easier, but I guess you must have learned a lot from that frame by frame work that you did back then.

JP (04:26)
I learned a lot from that. that’s one of the things I first started with. then obviously, a long way, I was also working with runners as well.

Thomas Butter (04:36)
you had worked as a physio, you got interested in running and was that a natural look to go from running straight into running form analysis or did you first start looking at injuries and then because you were interested in how those injuries came about, you looked into running form, what was the process there?

JP (05:00)
I think I started initially at running form because I was really interested in movement. why I spent a lot of time with running technique and running form. But the evolution of that went from understanding running posing the question of how can I help people with the knowledge I have.

That’s what led to spending a lot more time with understanding runners. it’s more than just running form. There’s a lot of different variables to think about when working with runners.

Thomas Butter (05:28)
I think today you’re not just helping the people in your clinic, you’re also helping millions of people that are watching your video learning about running form. topic of course is common myths about running form and you’re debunking quite a lot of those your videos let’s dive into this and can you mention some of the top myths like things that people believe, maybe things that people comment about number one myth?

JP (05:54)
There’s a bunch of them. But if I was going to boil to one overarching thing, before even going to specific things like, let’s say, cadence and foot strike, it’s that just because something works for you does not mean it works for everyone else. So I think that’s a big thing. People talk about all the time, I had this knee pain. I did this, and then it went away. So that’s great that’s worked for you. But it doesn’t necessarily mean it applies to everyone else.

Because again, pain and injuries are multifactorial. So with that in mind, there’s a lot of assumptions. And I feel like it’s these assumptions that run people into trouble. A big one being cadence, which cadence refers to how quickly someone takes steps as they run. there’s that common rule, the golden rule is 180 steps per minute.

I mean, that’s been tossed around a lot from sources from Jack Daniels. So I think it’s been just out of proportion it was supposed to be a simple observation. It wasn’t about saying, this is the best cadence for everyone.

Thomas Butter (07:04)
I think they were done based on Olympic runners at the time or… yeah.

JP (07:08)
Right. It was an observation, looking at Olympic runners at the time. But what we know about cadence is it’s a very dynamic variable. Because if you sprinters, how fast are their legs moving? It’s easily over 200. It could be 250 steps per minute and above. But when you run slowly,

Like you’ll probably notice that people take a lot slower steps, even below 180 steps per minute.

So it’s not about, we have to stick to 180. That’s like the average. But rather, say, for the 800 meter or mile, a mile or 10k? Because how you run would be different based off that event.

Thomas Butter (07:53)
For sure. Just to give people some kind of idea, mentioned sprinters would be 250, so 180s, maybe something more around marathon pace and maybe they would be even lower in ultra marathons. Is this how we have to think about it?

JP (08:12)
Interesting because I think there are research studies on it that look, when you look at 180 steps per minute, you’ll see that for marathon runners. You’ll even see it actually in ultra runners too, which is quite interesting. However, I think the real question is, is 180 steps per minute ideal for performance?

And if we’re answering it from that perspective, I would say

not enough to say that steps per minute is the ideal cadence. Because even, I think there’s like a study from looking at ultra runners You’ll see people’s preferred cadence range from like 160 steps per something like 180 to, I think 180 to 190 steps per minute. Now,

Did the people closer to 180 to 190 steps per minute perform better than the people who ran at 160 to 170 steps per minute? No.

Thomas Butter (09:05)
there’s distance, there’s speed, there’s even things like body height to weight, sometimes even age and running experience. All of these, I think, have been shown in different studies. So yeah, that’s a fascinating topic. And I think you brought a performance aspect of cadence and I understand it’s also an injury aspect, right?

JP (09:23)
Yeah, work with lot of injured runners and a common tip, is to increase someone’s cadence by typically five, 10, maybe 15 % of their preferred cadence.

It makes sense because you increase how quickly you take steps, you’re taking steps. So the stress and loads on each step is essentially less, because you’re taking more of them. You’re doing the same work, but you’re just distributing it more into more steps. This is particularly helpful with, I would say, the knee.

JP (09:55)
So I think there is a study out there where they looked at, they manipulated how quickly someone takes steps. And a 5 % to 10 % increase in cadence can actually lead to a 15 to 20 % decrease on loading around the knee region. So this can be really useful information, especially when you’re navigating how to get a runner back running again.

Thomas Butter (10:24)
probably a lot more to be discussed in a future episode. But I want to move on to another highly controversial topic in the world of running.

I remember reading once that the book Born to Run was like the best gift to physiotherapists. And of course, there the recommendation was moving to a forefoot strike. lot of camps with different opinions when we talk about foot strike. So let’s hear it from an expert who works a lot with runners. Can you give us the definitive answer or is it a bit more complex when we talk about foot strike? How should I be striking going on my next run?

JP (11:00)
It’s always more complex. mean, even if you look at running research, especially with technique, it’s very messy. very messy stuff. And that’s because it is complex. It’s very multifactorial. So I think how to approach this question would be a little bit more specific with the question, of saying, which
foot strike is best, we could go at it from another angle, which is, foot strike leads to the least amount of injuries.

I would say there is none. No foot strike leads to decreased injuries. However, it might change where those injuries might be when you get injured. Because where you strike the ground can influence how those forces are distributed throughout the body. A good example of this is,

Thomas Butter (11:31)
Okay.

JP (11:49)
When you land more on the forefoot, so that’s more on the ball of the foot or closer to the toes, this put more loading or stress on calf muscle ankle complex. If you land closer to the heel region, this will put a little bit more loading around the knee to hip region.

Thomas Butter (12:06)
Fascinating. can play with foot strike to modify the load on your body and how can continue running or deal with pain. there also performance aspect the foot strike?

JP (12:19)
A good question. Again, it kind of goes back to what we talked about with cadences. It depends on the situation. For example, when you see sprinters, most of them are on their forefoot. They’re mostly landing on the balls of their feet. However, if you look at, marathon runners, and there was a biomechanical report in 2017

I think it was the World Championships, looking at marathon runners. And you’ll notice that most of them heel strike, actually, when they run. So in the world do end up running a little bit more on their heels compared to midfoot, the forefoot. So again, it’s very situational.

Thomas Butter (13:02)
That tackles Cadence and Healstrike. Are there any other things that you think, I wish I’d be able to clarify to the running world?

JP (13:10)
I think I want to go back to those two again because I think this ties in perfectly with what I’m going to mention, which is you run can change based off your situation. a good example is let’s say a runner has knee pain,

They’re limited by their knee because it gets irritated when they run. What do we do from a running technique perspective? Or what can we do? Because there’s a lot of considerations to this. We talked about cadence, for instance. That was the first thing we talked about. What can we do with cadence to help possibly help that runner get back running a little sooner? Well, we could change their running form by increasing their cadence or step rate by 10 to 15 percent because by increasing the cadence that will decrease the loading around the knee may help them get back you know it won’t bother the knees as much when they run.

What we could also do is we could look from a foot strike perspective. I don’t really try to cue too much for foot strike. But let’s just say from a foot strike perspective, if someone has pain in the knee, I want them to land a little bit more on the forefoot area, because that will take pressure off the knees and put it more into that calf ankle complex.

Thomas Butter (14:25)
Do you have some practical cues? So if you work with a runner and you want them to increase their cadence, situations where you do want people to change their foot strike. there some mental cues or some tricks you can pull out of your sleeves that you would to runners to make it easier for them to change?

JP (14:44)
It can be highly specific to the person. say I do want to change someone’s cadence.
I can easily implement something like a metronome, which will essentially play a beat to a specific rhythm. So if I want someone to run at, let’s say they run at 160 steps per minute, I can set a beat at 170 steps per minute, and they just have to match those footsteps to the beat. for…

Foot strike, I think that one’s a little bit more simple. you want them to land on the forefoot, land a little closer to the balls of the feet, or if they won’t need to land on the rear foot, have a, know, land a little bit closer to the heel, have a gentle heel strike. And you notice that I’m using these words gentle, right? Gentle or a little bit. The reason I do that is because you don’t really wanna make too big of a change when someone runs either, want to make these small little adjustments, again, it’s a different way to move as well. Yeah.

Thomas Butter (15:36)
We see in some runners that people change from one type of running to another too aggressive and then they get injured but they just get injured a different way because their body isn’t quite ready to do that. we covered quite important of myths

We looked at cadence we looked at foot strike. And I think the common thing is that we need to understand how those two elements impact running form and then apply that to that specific person. So there’s no right or wrong. Would that be a fair way to summarize that?

JP (16:16)
You’re right. when I look at running technique, it’s not about fixing it immediately. just like when you’re chatting with someone, you don’t try to, especially, and you learn this very quickly, especially if you have a wife.

If they’re talking about a problem, you don’t immediately try to fix it. The first thing you do is you listen and you understand. And that’s how I see it. When I watch someone run, I don’t immediately try to fix it. Because when you try to fix it without understanding, you’re just doing a cookie cutter approach. You’re dismissing rest of their history. What I do is I want to understand why they run that way
And then if something needs to change it, and we decide, okay, based off the intention of what we’re trying to achieve, is it worth changing certain factors?

Thomas Butter (17:07)
I think that comes back to something you mentioned in beginning. Running form is just one element to look at. There’s other things the injury history of the runner, the type of running that they do. Looking at one running form element in isolation without knowing other elements of running form and these aspects might be challenging to do,

JP (17:29)
Its just about being aware of your own body and how you move.

how do you improve anything? Right, first you need to be aware of what you need to work on. First you need to be aware of yourself, and then think about, well what do I need to work on based off the goals I have?

Thomas Butter (17:44)
Some say, actually, I don’t bother about running form, I just run and I get better. it make sense to look at running form?

JP (17:52)
It makes sense look at running form. when we watch people run, just understand that there’s a lot of variety. However, just because there’s variety does not mean that the technique itself does not matter. Because how you run does influence, how forces are distributed throughout the body.

Thomas Butter (18:11)
was a beautiful few words for our first episode today. you, listener, interested in analyzing your own running form, make sure to go to movaia.com, that’s M-O-V-A-I-A dot com, where we analyze running form and we also apply a lot of wisdom the way that we analyze. said that, JP,

Where can people find you on the internet they would like to learn more about you,

JP (18:40)
I have my YouTube channel. think it’s called, you know, if you type in JP space Gloria, G-L-O-R-I-A, you’ll be able to find my videos there. terms of reaching out, I’m also active on Instagram. So you could find me at JP, would say if you need to reach out with a more serious inquiry, could email me Maybe we could just put that in the show notes.

Thomas Butter (19:16)
If you have questions, please let us know in the comment section below or by emailing us at community at movaia.com, our youtube channel or Movaia’s Instagram (@movaiaofficial), you’ll find all of that a lot of interesting information about running form So, thanks a lot JP your wisdom and insights today forward to our next episode.

Thank you so much, happy running everyone!

JP (19:51)
Yeah, I look forward to it. Bye.

Thomas Butter (19:53)
Thank you.